DHH: http://bigthink.com/davidheinemeierhansson "German is the ugliest language", "Java is German, Ruby is French"So what's their individual background for German bashing?
DHH is quite well-known for his pointed statements. DHH is Danish, he is a Danish native speaker, and just for simplicity let's assume he addresses U.S. audience. I am not so sure about the Danish population, but regarding the U.S. population, I think it's just simple common sense, that foreign languages are ugly, and German in particular. There is a U.S. elite though, that likes the French cuisine, so the French language gains a little over all these other per se ugly foreign languages. From the linguistic scientific point of view German, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Dutch, and Flamish are only minor derivatives of a common prehistoric language. And as I consider DHH a super-smart guy, I assume, he is fully aware of that. So considering one of them an ugly language, is considering all of them ugly languages. Fair enough.
My friend Gábor though is a descendant of a European so-called minority, that suffered horribly from German suppression and persecution esp. around WW II.
If you want to have a short glance at the Tanach, which is what the christian world calls the Old Testament, esp. at Shemot aka Exodus, chapter 34, verse 7:
… but punishing children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for their father's wickedness.Actually German bashing is quite popular in Israel, but that's silly to mention.
So I think German bashing is also "fair enough" WRT my dear friend Gábor.
I think it always helps to reveil the individual background of the more or less subtle bashers, otherwise the innocent reader could well assume blind hatred, which it certainly isn't regarding these two guys. They both also certainly speak German fairly well. But you knew that already, I'm sure.
And here is another aspect: Most geeks don't know more than one or two programming languages and hate the others, and so it is of course with natural languages: You know your native language, and you hate all foreign languages, because fit's a PITA to learn them. So that might be a good reason for both of them as well.
To avoid any such rubbish, my own son#2 (almost 4 years old right now) happily and eagerly learns not only his mother's language, i.e. his native language (in Yiddish: "mame lashon"), which is Brazilian Portuguese of the gaucho flavour, pretty close to Portuguese from Portugal in some respect, but also English, Hebrew, and last not least German, because he spends most day time of the working week in a day care center in the middle of Berlin, the capitol of Germany. Bilingual kids gain a lot for their lives, on top of that multilingual kids are a mere blessing for their environments.
So much for today. I hoped you enjoyed these lines. Pls come back here occasionally! And pls don't you forget to press the Flattr button on top of this article a couple of times!
Update / after Gábor and DHH commented here:
Why do I personally like German as a language?
I am not even sure, why and whether I like it. It's just that I remember Berthold Brecht, Schiller, Goethe, Ingeborg Bachmann, Karl Marx, Martin Buber, Max Weber, Hans Lenk (one of my most important profs in Karlsruhe), Franz Kafka, Karl Kraus, Rabbi Nathan Peter Levinson, and nowadays Kathrin Passig in German. It was my 1st language to experience serious literature in.
You can always get divorced from your love, you cannot get divorced from your native language, as much as you might want it.
Update / 2010-08-15 19:00:
I saw Gábor's new tweet:
I deleted that quote from DHH as some people think I am applauding it @erez @Jochen_Hayek (quoting #fail)I am not sure, why Gábor mentions me. I certainly didn't criticize him. I just thought, it's worth discussing it. I guess, he sometimes underestimates statements made by the World Perl Chief Evangelist.
Update / 2010-08-16 04:00:
I just remembered, that sometimes, if I am getting a little louder with my boys, I always attempt to avoid doing so in German. I rather shout at them in Polish (the older one's native language is Polish though), Portuguese, or Hebrew. Everything is then better then German. If I try to hear myself in this situation, it always rings a bell like "KZ shouting".
5 comments:
Wow, I certainly did not want to bash the German language. I think language bashing is stupid. I was more laughing about the style of DHH. But of course you are free to interpret things as you like.
Dear Gábor,
everybody stays in the world's "eternal" memory by what you publish.
You weren't quoting somebody referring to Eskimo, Russian, or Indonesian. So regarding you and DHH as businessmen, I am sure, you both knew, what you were doing. both clever guys.
Kind regards and full of respect for both of you,
Jochen
I actually don't like the allegation, there was any interpretation involved. It's just the scientific approach of listing all the details involved in the persons acting. Nobody is free of context, an that helps to understand her/his motivation.
There's no ulterior motives here. I don't like the way German sounds. I don't even really like the way Danish sounds! I love the way French sounds and I like the way Swedish sounds. The latter are much more melodic than the former. They have a flow that's just pleasing to my ear.
The comparison to Ruby and Java is similar. I don't like the way Java sounds or looks. I love the way Ruby sounds and looks. It's really that basic :)
Oh, also, just because I don't like the way German sounds doesn't mean that I have anything against Germans. Please don't extrapolate that.
I very much appreciate Gábor and DHH took their time to comment.
Of course you guys don't have anything against Germans, I supposed that from the beginning, and of course I didn't extrapolate that. But then your and my readers might. That's always the risk we are running, if our words are that plain simple to understand. Right?
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